alt_fen | I show not your face but your heart's desire

What will Harry Marvolo see there? To desire something presumably one must know it exists, even if one does not know the specifics - Harry Potter knew he had parents and an extended family, even if he didn't know what they looked like. Ron knew what it looked like to be praised and noticed because he'd seen his brothers.

Do we know it's Harry particularly who will find the Mirror? We had two duos of boys rescue Hermione from the troll, but we don't know yet if the ones who find the Mirror of Erised will be Harry-and-Draco or Neville-and-Ron. Ron's staying at Hogwarts over hols, Neville's status is unclear (I think), and Harry and Draco are expected at Malfoy Manner. Since the LP never tried to kill either Harry or Neville, he never "marked [one] as his equal," or whatever the precise wording is. So it could be Neville who finds the Mirror, Neville who has grown up without his parents' presence in this universe rather than paid regular visits to their damaged selves in St. Mungos. Neville who knows that his parents are out there, somewhere, and might wish for them. And then he might show Ron, whose wish would presumably be the same as in canon.

If it IS Harry who finds the Mirror, I don't think he'll see James - he thinks he knows his father. He might see Lily, though, because he might be wishing to know his own mother. We don't know what if anything the LP has told him about the woman who brought him in to the world. I suppose, if the LP 'fessed up that Harry is adopted then Harry might still wish to see both his birth parents. But I don't think it would be a thunderous shock, then, because he'd just be looking curiously at ghosts from his past rather than craving a family - and that alone makes it unlikely that he'll see them. "Eaten up with curiosity" is not the same as "deepest, most desperate desire."

Good question!

Good response!

You have just totally illuminated some thoughts I was having earlier.

I was thinking about the big events in canon, and how they might play out in Alternity. And because of Harry's role as they go on (like how he directly comes into conflict with Voldemort several times in climactic scenes), he will either eventually need to become estranged from his father and start fighting him, or he will need to be fighting someone else (like maybe Order members? Like, the same structures to conflicts but he's on the opposite side?).

But OH MY GOD your way makes so much sense. In fact, it would be so easy to stick close to canon if we sub in Neville for Harry. He's already Ron's best friend and a Gryffindor, and he has battled the troll and seen Fluffy. He has a much greater likelihood of becoming friends with Hermione. He is the brave and moral character that Harry was in canon. It seems like so far, it is completely ambiguous whether it will be Harry or Neville in that big Philosopher's Stone scene at the end of the year. But if it's Neville, it would make little stuff (like Slytherin winning the cup until Gryffindor gets those last-minute points) fit in with the book much more easily. And motivation-wise, I could much more easily see Neville going out to try to save the day by preventing whoever from getting the Philosopher's Stone than I could see Harry Marvolo doing so.

It seems so clear now that this ambiguity about who is going to fulfill the prophecy has been purposely set up, and I didn't even think about it until now! I wonder if it will start to more clearly differentiate as time goes by, or if Harry and Neville will just be together for most of the big events to keep the mystery going. Or take turns with them, so that they each have an equal chance of doing each big Harry-in-canon thing. I would think by fourth year, we'd have a big clue, if Voldemort mixes his blood with one of the boys.

OR MAYBE AT THE LAST MINUTE THEY'LL JUST KILL VOLDEMORT TOGETHER.

I would think by fourth year, we'd have a big clue, if Voldemort mixes his blood with one of the boys.

But that's the thing, isn't it - all these things Voldemort does in canon, the LP may not have a reason to do in this universe. He may not need the Philosopher's Stone, because he's not a shade desperately clinging to life. He may not need the blood of Harry or Neville because he won't need to be reincorporated. (That sentence looks hilarious, but I trust you know what I really mean.) And I'm not sure Harry or Neville would do it at this point - he picked Harry in canon because Harry was his "greatest enemy." In Alternity, Harry's his son and Neville is a regular schoolboy. Unless Neville starts having confrontations with the LP that lead to him getting enemy status!

If Neville winds up being the Chosen One in this universe, I'm afraid he's going to have it even harder than Harry did in canon. Neville doesn't have a Dumbledore whispering to him and he doesn't have a sense of righteousness against Voldemort-the-villain; instead, he'll be on his own (with a Headmistress who has to pretend to be a Death Eater) and accused of sedition against the Lord Protector. I'm worried for him, if that's how this plays out.

The reason Neville-as-Chosen is so shocking to me is that I had an ending point in my head for Harry Marvolo that was basically the same as Harry Potter, and just took a different route there. So I was reading him totally through that lens (like, "is this the thing that starts to change him into the more familiar version? Or this? Or this?"). As exemplified by my whole "maybe the Mirror of Erised will be the trigger" line of thought. But maybe he'll just never get there. Maybe he'll grow up spoiled, shallow, and complacent. Maybe instead of becoming more like the Harry we know over time, he'll become more distant from that. Which would be totally awesome storytelling, but at the same time incredibly depressing.

Or maybe Harry could grow to fill Neville's canon role, and eventually be a major voice in the Hogwarts student resistance and kill Nagini, but still not do the whole Chosen One thing, and take much longer to get there.

Or maybe this pattern where they hit the same beats as canon is more of a neat shout-out to AU-ness than a mission statement for the future, and as time goes on they'll abandon it.

I kind of like the possibilities of seeing some of the other characters filling the heroic roles instead of sidekick/supporting roles. After all, Harry would have gotten nowhere without Hermione acting as his brain and Ron acting as, well, Ron. I'd love to see everyone get their moments in the spotlight, instead of the one giant burning spotlight on the Chosen One.

Boot and Hermione are shaping up to be really wonderful downtrodden heroes. What if they discover the Mirror?

Boot and Hermione are shaping up to be really wonderful downtrodden heroes. What if they discover the Mirror?

Genius! They are the ones with the greatest desires! Neville might miss his parents, but they're still alive and fine, you know? Hermione might see herself as a student, a prefect, Head Girl! Someone with friends and personhood and knowledge. Oh, Hermione. Everything you are supposed to have.

I'm afraid Terry is too beat down to recognize his own desires - unless he sees freedom, which we know he's thought about for his essay. (Which, by the way this: that you will be your own master and nobody else can tell you what to do. dont know who would give you that reward, exactly. or is it something you claim for yourself because no one can give it to you? kind of breaks my heart.)

I'm afraid Terry is too beat down to recognize his own desires

Which is exactly why the mirror would be so powerful for him.

Though I may be giving it too much credit. Dumbledore also says "However, this mirror will give us neither knowledge or truth. Men have wasted away before it, entranced by what they have seen, or been driven mad, not knowing if what it shows is real or even possible."

Of course, Dumbledore doesn't actually know everything, nor does he always use precisely the correct words. So maybe it can give knowledge, if it's self-awareness type knowledge. And for several of the kids, I think that seeing the difference between what they actually desire and what they've been told they should desire could be pretty interesting.

I love that you apparently have the book open in front of you. <3

...for several of the kids, I think that seeing the difference between what they actually desire and what they've been told they should desire could be pretty interesting.

Yes! Definitely.

I really heart both Terry and Hermione -- they're both poignant without being emo, and I admire the writing going into them. Especially Boot's sly strikes at his "betters," which I'm sure he pays for.

alt_player_neville said something close to 'that'd be news to me' when Neville as the prophecied one came up last.

Do you think that means the whole prophecy is different in this universe? Or just that Neville's not destined to assume the mantle of the prophecy? Presumably it's still the "born as the seventh month dies" bit, or why would the LP have Harry?

I don't think that should stop us from speculating in that direction. There are many reasons Neville's player could have had for saying that, and not all of them involve the theory being wrong.

Well, here I go responding to my own post again.

I can picture three different scenarios. In the first, Harry somewhere deep down remembers his real parents, and so the "deepest, most desperate desire" of his heart is to be with them, just as in canon, at which point he flips out because he has no idea why this mirror shows him with two random people. If he is able to figure out that this is showing him what he most desires, and takes the time to figure out who these people are, then this could be a major turning point in his world-view.

In the second scenario, Harry Marvolo looks into the mirror and sees something different from canon, but still something that makes him think. Maybe his heart's deepest desire somehow involves a world where Hermione is his friend and a fellow student, or something. So it still gives him some insight, but not on the specific matter of his parentage.

In the third scenario, he sees himself as Head Boy and captain of the Quidditch team, or something along those lines. The Mirror makes its appearance, but has no real repercussions except to be familiar to Harry in the big scene where he gets the philosopher's stone (assuming that scene happens in alternity and is similar enough that the Mirror still plays a role in it).

I've been thinking about a corner of this question, too, as students talk about where they'll be for the holidays. My question has been whether there will be some excuse made up for Harry to have to stay at Hogwarts for the holiday so that, as in canon, he could be in the castle with Ron for Christmas.

I'm waiting to see what the players choose to do about this. (Perhaps nothing. Perhaps Harry will just go home to Buckingham Palace and will have a bang up time exploring New London with Draco's Aunty Bellatrix and attending the Malfoy's holiday party and eating whatever his heart desires that Dennis can procure for him.)

Along these lines, I should say that I was startled by Molly's post which provided the reason for Ron to be at Hogwarts through the holidays. I had not expected that given the differences in the game. So that's what made me begin to think we might see a sudden reason crop up for Harry to stay. (I just can't really imagine how that would be made to seem necessary short of a major rebellion cropping up that can't be surpressed in a night or two...)

Yes, I didn't initially catch the significance of Ron staying, but it does now seem that it's setting us up for the next match between Alternity and canon.

The question is, out of Harry and Neville, who is going to be the most likely to stay at Hogwarts with Ron?

-Harry seems unlikely, because even if Voldemort had to be away or something, he'd be far more likely to stay with the Malfoys than stay behind at school.

-I thought Neville was fairly likely to decide to stay, maybe to be with Ron, until I remembered him posting that Seamus was staying with him (http://alt-neville.livejournal.com/4538.html) over the holidays, and since Seamus doesn't seem to have anywhere else to go, and both boys are excited about the visit, it seems somewhat less likely that Neville would choose to change that plan.

-Or maybe I'm putting too much on this Harry vs. Neville thing. Maybe Ron will discover the mirror with Hermione or Terry, as heavenscalyx said.

I'm a new watcher here so my speculation is going to probably be way off-base.

From what I've read it seems like the LP hasn't had much of a "hands-on" approach with Harry's upbringing...even though Harry hasn't lacked for anything it sounds like he's been farmed out to the Malfoys quite a bit. He'd have been treated well but I'm thinking that maybe doesn't feel quite the same as having a proper family. So my bet is he sees himself with his family.

Ooo, we should be seeing the Invisibility Cloak soon too!

OMG, a new watcher! That's wonderful! I love talking about the game and there's only about 10 to 15 of us who regularly post here, so WELCOME!

Are there any questions you have that we can answer?

The thing is, in Alternity, Harry doesn't know about his parents. It's unclear whether he knows he has parents besides Voldemort. We know that he's confused when he heards the name Potter from the Sorting Hat (http://alt-sirius.livejournal.com/553.html), and while he is willing to believe Sirius at first that he has parents besides Voldemort, he eventually rejects what Sirius says, and it's unclear if he rejects all or just part of it.

So if he does see himself in the mirror with his real parents, based on some really distant memory, I think it could be pretty shocking to him. It might start making him ask questions that could lead to some interesting truths about his past. Especially because we have reason to believe both Draco (http://community.livejournal.com/hpalternity/9159.html?thread=61127#t61127) and Pansy (http://community.livejournal.com/hpalternity/9159.html?thread=61895#t61895) *do* know about Harry's real parents, and I can certainly imagine one of them letting it slip.

So if he does see himself in the mirror with his real parents, based on some really distant memory, I think it could be pretty shocking to him. It might start making him ask questions that could lead to some interesting truths about his past. Especially because we have reason to believe both Draco and Pansy *do* know about Harry's real parents, and I can certainly imagine one of them letting it slip.

You know, that might be the key to sorting this out. We don't actually know that the Mirror is at Hogwarts. If it was there in canon due to Dumbledore, it wouldn't necessarily be there now. What if the Malfoys have the Mirror? What if it's Harry and Draco rather than Harry and Ron who encounter the Mirror?

The problem with this is, of course, where then will the Philosopher's Stone be hidden? Unless! If I recall correctly, in canon they encounter Fluffy first, then the Mirror elsewhere, and then later both together. So since we know Fluffy's around (and wasn't that a Harry-Draco-Ron-Neville adventure too? But who was number five? Not another Slytherin, it sounds like.) and we suspect that the Philosopher's Stone is hidden somewhere under McG's influence, then perhaps the Malfoys have the Mirror Erised until Harry stumbles on it and they then move it, much as Dumbledore does in canon, but for different reasons. In canon, Harry finds the Mirror and has a rather gentle encounter with Dumbledore about his potential addiction to it; Dumbledore moves the Mirror, I think, both in response to Harry and because he was going to relocate it anyway for Stone-hiding purposes. What if the Malfoys have it (decoration, part of their magical artifact collection, whatever), Harry finds it and it raises uncomfortable questions about his past, Lucius squashes those questions and ships the Mirror off to Hogwarts to stop Harry from encountering it anymore, and then McG takes advantage of it as a hiding place for the Stone? (Phew!)

*tinhats, happily*

... I think I'd better reread HPPS over Winter Break. I'll need better recall to keep doing this kind of (totally awesome) (wild) speculation.

I remember thinking at the time that the 5th person was Hermione. I can't remember what I based that on, though.

Mirror of Erised at Malfoy Manor, huh? That would fit, and it would actually work with the version of events where Harry ends up working *with* Voldemort and *against* someone else when he tries to keep the stone out of someone's hand (very possibly still Quirrel). So Voldemort AND the Hogwarts staff both want to keep the stone protected, with Voldemort in this case actually stepping a little into Dumbledore's role.

1. Voldemort knows the stone is in danger, and sends it to Hogwarts to be protected by some trustworthy professors, possibly adding his own protective spell to the series that Fluffy is using.
2. Minerva can't use the stone to make gold for Xeno Lovegood, because Voldemort knows she has the stone and would therefore know who had been responsible for bailing out Xeno. And that would make him suspicious or at least annoyed, since using the stone is not part of her role as protector.

In fact, it could then be Voldemort himself who Harry goes to about the mirror, and who has the idea of putting it as the last protection for the stone.

Am I crazy for this to sound plausible to me?

I really want it to be Hermione, because that supports the awesome canon connection that we saw in Halloween's troll fight - not one but TWO prophesied boys, not one but TWO pureblood sons of iconic families, and one Hermione (disenfranchised as she may be).

The Harry-Draco connection is really interesting in this game when compared to Harry-Ron in canon - in both cases, Harry doesn't have much of a family of his own (maliciously neglected by the Dursleys in canon, benignly neglected by the LP in Alternity) and is taken in by a family that really symbolizes the predominant thinking about magical castes (the Weasleys in canon, who support the dominant and accepted opinion that Muggleborns and Muggles are human beings worthy of respect; the Malfoys in Alternity, who support the dominant and accepted opinion that Muggleborns and Muggles are less than human). The bit that's pinging my "awesome!" radar here is that Alternity is doing what fandom always wanted - Harry's bridging the gap. He's still friends with Ron, still drawn to Gryffindors despite his *cough* reassignment. He's still using both sides of himself and reaching out to both Draco and Ron, who arguably represent the Slytherin and Gryffindor facets of Harry. Without the small but powerful influences he has in canon that drive him to reject Slytherin so forcefully, is this a Harry who can strike a balance between cunning and courage? Between the aristocracy and the working class? Between his wizardly heritage (by blood and adoption) and the idea of rising from humble circumstances (by blood - Lily was a Muggleborn, after all - and by friendship with the Weasleys [lower-class purebloods], Hermione [Muggleborn] and maybe others [oh, how I would love to see Harry's sense of right and wrong come up against the Muggle internment camps ... although maybe not until he's done some preliminary thinking against the regime]).

This game is so cool.

As is this fan community. I am having so much fun thinking through these possibilities. :)

Also, this crystallizes why I *don't* want the prophecy to be about Neville in this AU, as cool as it in some ways would be. I think Neville's really important, but I'm really interested in Harry's journey to saving the world from Voldemort, now his own adopted father. And I want to see how he gets there from his new position in Slytherin. It is actually a little bit of a Slytherin redemption story, isn't it? And... I'm not putting this into words very well, but yeah, I really like what you say in your post. I'm going to tag this thread "best of alt_fen" in its honor!

I hate to say it, but I think that the Harry-Draco set up here is showing us what Harry will lose (reject and be rejected by) when he learns the truth of his past: we may be being set up to say, "Alas! If only he could still be friends with Draco! If only he'd been able to persuade Draco to re-evaluate things, too!" It could be that Draco and other Slytherin kids will turn with Harry against the LP when he learns that Voldemort murdered his parents, but what I'm seeing so far is a Draco who will be bound up by wounded family honour, pure-blood ideology, and Slytherin chauvinism. (I expect him to align with Theodore against Harry when Draco feels Harry has betrayed their friendship. Maybe Pansy will still be free-thinking enough to stand with Harry.)

The game may be letting us see a small idyll here in the first year of the game while these kids are young enough and the political situation is stable enough to allow cross-House and cross-party connections. While it's still possible for young brains to formulate questions and learn to keep them quiet/alive. I expect that we will spend a lot of time later on saying, "Do you remember when they all played chess together?" "Do you remember when Draco and Harry and Neville and Ron ALL explored the castle together?" "Isn't it a shame..."

It makes sense, and would be very sad. I wonder if there's a little part of Draco, who has been overshadowed a little by Harry for most of his life, that would take pleasure in everybody turning against Harry, though.

Sometimes I think that things are already a bit strained between them. They get along, but not really like best friends, you know? Have you noticed that, unlike some other friendships (like Pansy and Ron), we never really see Harry and Draco being relaxed and joking and having fun with each other? I wonder if it's happening "off-screen" or if it's just not a part of their friendship.

I mean, and apologies for using an example from a game you haven't read, but I am messing with making an offline version of This Is Now, and yesterday I saw this thread (http://the-boy-who.livejournal.com/9374.html) of Harry and Ron and Hermione just sort of having fun and being friends, and I can't imagine alt_harry and alt_draco acting that relaxed and comfortable with each other. The closest they get is something like this (http://alt-harry.livejournal.com/1197.html?thread=7597#t7597). And it has a very different tone.

So maybe it's just because they're 11. Or that Draco's personality is very different from Ron's. Or that they've both been raised to be very restrained. Or that this is just a tenser world. But... do you see what I mean?

I totally agree about this Draco and his relationship with this Harry. It keeps coming back to me that Draco has grown up receiving punishments on Harry's behalf. That has surely shaped the way they feel about each other. It is part of Draco's programming to be loyal to Harry, but that doesn't add up to a relaxed, fun friendship.

And it seems to me that we've seen signals already that Draco is jealous of Ron. I fully expect that tension to grow over time. Ron and Harry have fun exchanges -- in part because Ron did not grow up being taught to defer to Harry as a princeling. (And Harry gets prickly with students who seem awestruck by him -- he nearly took Hannah's head off, I think -- so I can see why Ron's unfussed response to him would be so appealing to Harry.)

I'm intrigued, too, by Draco's report that Madam Pomfrey told him he needs to fret less: I think this Draco is pretty tightly wound. (That strikes me as canonical, too.) We've already seen that he worries about measuring up to his father's expectations, that he's programmed to be anxious about getting in trouble (and about being held accountable if Harry gets in trouble), and that he worries that something bad might happen to his father (Draco was angriest with Pansy when Lucius let slip that he was taking heat for Pansy's behavior). I expect to see Draco put under increasing pressure as this game moves forward, and I expect it will take a measurable toll on him.

Tanky!

Only one question: Do we have Official Game Confirmation that Harry Marvelo's journey will lead him to eventually overthrow the LP?!

He doesn't know specifics, true, but even with the little bit that Harry
knows, he'd be asking the same questions that any child of a single parent would ask, why don't I have a mom?, and it sounds like he knows he'd adopted so that would certainly lead him to questions about both of his parents. He might not even be able to specifically see Lily and James in the mirror, but a generic sort of family. Or maybe it will be another group effort and Harry will hear the other kids seeing themselves reunited with their families and that will get him wondering more about his own.

It's boggling (and fascinating!) to think of the challenges they're dealing with in this universe. Canon!Harry felt a degree of relief when he found out the Dursleys had lied, (he knew he never belonged there)...in comparison, Harry Marvelo hasn't been toughened up by all that bullying and he seems more naive for it, which will make his discovery harder.

Do we have Official Game Confirmation that Harry Marvelo's journey will lead him to eventually overthrow the LP?!

1. No, although we have reason to believe the prophecy still exists in this universe. The official game summary says that this AU results from "one tiny change back when it all started." Some other summaries (http://community.livejournal.com/tin_hats/148400.html) were a little more specific about what the change is, but I'm not sure if that's still the official version. Anyway, for now I'm going with the idea that the change probably is not in the meaning of the prophecy, and so either Harry or Neville is still destined to kill or be killed by Voldemort.

2. I was actually reading a summary yesterday of the first Mirror of Erised scene from canon, and in it Harry sees not just his parents, but his whole family including grandparents and maybe more. For some of them, I'm guessing he either never met them at all, or he just saw them for a very brief time as a baby. So the mirror's magic seems to include the ability to take things that you want but don't actually know what they look like, and to show them to you. Or at least to pull them from really tiny snippets of forgotten memories. So I think he would be able to see specifically James and Lily, if his real family is the thing he desires most.

3. Yeah, canon Harry did get a sort of strength from surviving his messed-up childhood, didn't he? I too find Harry in this game really interesting, because of all the characters, he's the one most different from his canon version, and yet he's still definitely recognizably himself.

Hat tip to you - it's your comment about the LP's relationship with Harry that helped my comparison between Ron and Draco (~~down thread~~ er, up thread? Here.) really gel. Yay for collaborative fannishness!

And I second

brimtoast's "Welcome!"

Edited 2008-12-05 20:57 (UTC)

Thank you!

Yes, omg, seeing Draco as the overshadowed best friend is just fascinating. It makes me wonder how their friendship will withstand Harry's learing about his past...as it seems Draco knows something. Or maybe he just knows that there's something Harry doesn't know. He sure seems to walk on eggshells when it comes to Lucius and the LP.

I couldn't decide where to append this comment in the thread, but I think that Neville-as-Chosen-One is a red herring because the

hp_alternity is focused very explicitly on Harry:

ALTERNITY is a Harry Potter roleplaying game, set in an alternate universe where Lord Voldemort has the upper hand.

As a result of one tiny change back when it all started, Harry Potter has been raised as Harry Marvolo, the Dark Lord's adoptive son and heir apparent. He simultaneously loathes and is intrigued by the Mudbloods and Muggles that are interned in work camps throughout Great Britain. He knows nothing of the world beyond the United Kingdom's seemingly impenetrable wards. And he is about to start attending Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry... where he will encounter truths about his past, present, and future that he has never known before.

It's too early for Harry to have had many encounters yet with the hidden truths that are lurking to ambush him, but we've got seven years to spread that out over. (I'm having a bit of trouble adjusting my plot expectations to that time line because I keep over-reading or expecting plot events to mean more than they do. I keep thinking in terms of a long, chaptered fic not in terms of a game that's plotted to last for seven years. We're not close to ANY resolutions yet. However, we can look forward to yearly progress and to one big plot chunk developing and resolving in each of those years, so there is significant stuff afoot, including very likely some stuff that will happen during the Christmas holidays.

My personal speculation... (I hesitate to put this in print - not because I fear being crazy wrong - that'd be okay - but because I almost hate to burden players with this sort of plot speculation - what if it's close? what if it sounds like a fen demand? what if they grow to wish they could just play without having us guessing what they're about to do?) ... my personal speculation is that there is going to be some event that will demand the LP and Lucius Malfoy (and other Death Eaters) to be absent over the holidays. Perhaps they'll think they have caught Sirius or Dumbledore (we haven't heard from Dumbledore for a long time, have we?*) or Kingsley Shacklebolt will start a really major uprising in the camps and the DE sprogs will get sent back to Hogwarts early.

I'm inclined to read Draco's most recent post not only as a contribution to the Hogwarts environmental illness mystery but also as a set up for Draco's suffering a massive disappointment when something comes up and he can't go home for the holidays as he's so eager to do.

*Re. Dumbledore's absence: it's only just occurred to me how completely canonical that is -- and that we should be expecting to hear something of him over the holidays because that parallels one of his appearances in the Book One narrative.

(I hesitate to put this in print - not because I fear being crazy wrong - that'd be okay - but because I almost hate to burden players with this sort of plot speculation - what if it's close? what if it sounds like a fen demand? what if they grow to wish they could just play without having us guessing what they're about to do?)

I've had similar thoughts as well. On one hand, I think players probably enjoy being able to read our thoughts. But on the other, what if we actually get close to a future twist, or figure it out entirely, and they're stuck in the situation of playing something like a twist when they actually know the readers already know about it?

If it does make them uncomfortable, they could ask us to back off speculating about the future and stick to analyzing the current happenings, which would still give us plenty to talk about. I would definitely honor that request.

(I am going to respond to the rest of your comment too, but I wanted to address that first.)

I can only speak for myself but I certainly don't mind!

I don't mind either! I love reading what y'all have to say. I will say that sometimes you guys are scary smart.

Okay, in response to the rest.

1. I hope you're right about Harry vs. Neville. I hadn't thought to look to the official description, but it's true that it does seem to point in that direction. Though do we assume that they already had the main plot figured out when they wrote that?

2. If Sirius got caught eventually and went to Azkaban, that *would* help set up the year 3 plot to go somewhat similarly to the books. I wonder if he would be allowed to keep his journal in Azkaban.

3. Poor Draco :(

4. Since Dumbledore and Harry have no relationship, and Harry's probably never even heard of Dumbledore, I wouldn't be surprised if Dumbledore's important parts, at least for now, got passed to someone else. Most likely McGonagall as the person who gives him the invisibility cloak, but maybe Lucius or Voldemort could take on some of the wisdom-giving role as well, especially when it comes to things like explaining the nature of the mirror to Harry.

Ok, enough with the lurking, Ive been reading this from the beginning, and I figure its time to introduce myself.

1. You all rock! I am amazed at all the incredible theories and all, mostly I just read, worry and feel my heart break each time Boot and Hermione post.

2. I love all the speculation about the Mirror, I am really curious about it. I particularly like the idea of Boot finding it. he is downtrodden, but at the same time the kid has spirit you know? those little barbs he lets out sometimes just fill my heart with joy, just as he breaks my heart each time he says something like 'you can get used to the cruciatus curse.' I really love that boy. Cant someone just kill him (for fake I mean) to save him from the Carrows?

Now about all the speculation around here, what about the cloak? I dont think the order would return it to him, not considering he is in the hands of Voldemort. Is someone using it? would they risk returning it to the boy? One would figure that Dumbledore knew then about the Hallows, would he risk such a valuable be in the hands of Voldemort? and where is Dumbledore anyways? he hasnt posted since that first post right? have I missed something?

Welcome! I'm happy you posted!

I had sort of pictured McG giving Harry the cloak (possibly having been left it by Dumbledore when he fled to America), but you're right of course that that would be a pretty risky move. Harry could, for example, lend the cloak to his Father who could use it to spy on people.

In fact, it's weird, now that I think about it, that the Order isn't using the cloak extensively! If it's in their possession, they could do all sorts of secret good sneaking about the Muggle camps with it.

So here are a couple possibilities:
-It is hidden in some part of the castle. Only Dumbledore knows about it. On Christmas he will send a secret message directing Harry there (or possibly some other student of his choice. But it seems fairly Dumbledore-like to trust Harry a lot more than the rest of the Order would).
-Voldemort, Lucius, or some other DE has it from raiding Dumbledore's possessions at some point. They may or may not give it to Harry.
-The Order has it and will give it to Neville?

My overwhelming suspicion is that we will *hear* about the Cloak on Christmas day, but whose hands it ends up in, and how it gets there, is anyone's guess.

I think its quite possible Dumbledore has it. I mean he would not leave something like that around would he? and if he hasn't, wouldn't Mcgonagal try to hide it? I do think they will eventually get back to the Hallows, I wonder how? and Didn't Voldemort already choose Harry as the chosen one anyhow? otherwise why would he raise the boy as his own? If he is so incapable of love, then why else would he choose to raise him? and wasn't in the end both Neville and Harry who killed him? I mean Neville did kill on of the horcruxes (sp?) after all...

and what did I miss? why is boot sick?

Prophecy:
The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies..."

So, "the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal." I could see that going either way. In a way, raising Harry as a son marks him as a potential equal. In another way, it sort of marks him as unequal, since the Father/Son relationship could be seen as much less equal in terms of power than, say, the Enemy/Enemy one. Especially with Voldemort's parenting style.

So it's possible that Voldemort hasn't really marked either boy as his equal yet, and some future action of his will be what decides which one the prophecy is about.

It also says "he will have power the Dark Lord knows not." In the books, that was interpreted as power based on love, like the love it would take for Lily to sacrifice herself for Harry. But... wait, actually. DID SHE SACRIFICE HERSELF? Maybe she did and so Harry does have that magical protection, but since Voldemort changed his mind immediately after killing Harry, it hasn't been invoked yet. How would that work? Would that still have some effect on him? This has never occurred to me before!

Well, now I forgot what I was saying. But hm.

and what did I miss? why is boot sick?

It's very recent. Poppy posted about it here (http://alt-poppy.livejournal.com/1696.html).

Cant someone just kill him (for fake I mean) to save him from the Carrows?

Pomfrey might have just the right opportunity now! (Supposing that Terry survives his bout of pneumonia.)

I do hope that is the plan, what happens to boot breaks my heart! I would love to see him come back later on to make the Carrows pay for what they did to him.

I show not your face but your heart's desire

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