Where is Dean Thomas?

[ellemir]

Does anyone else think Padma and Seamus seem unusually worried about him?
They must have come up with one hell of a fake challenge, if his absence has got them this worried.
And what does it have to do with Milland (Snape)?

Comments

[teceler]

Oh dear

[ellemir]

Yep, this is truly scary.

[cheyinka]

Oh my.

Well, as of May 2nd it was still in Dolohov's office (but not where it should be). May 2nd was also when Seamus left the false challenge for Dean to find.

I would not be surprised if Seamus had been responsible for the book (safely in its case) being left out - but what on earth did Padma and Seamus come up with for Dean to do with the book?

[ellemir]

Well, Seamus had to steal something, so maybe just that. Steal this book, and leave it out as "bait".
But, why risk trouble by breaking in to Antonin's office. Surely they only want Dean to risk it. Also Padma is a good enough student to appreciate the risks of a dark magic book. Is she so amoral that she would risk Deans life to progress?

We have heard nothing about deans real task? If he had one, it could have been related to the book. But that would be a task to set if you want him dead.
ETA: I meant that as Seamus had to steal, asking Dean to do so might have occurred to them.

[cheyinka]

Seamus had to steal something? I thought that was just Linus. I don't think we saw what his pre-party challenge was; afterwards, he had to abseil (rappel) down the Astronomy Tower, Padma had to sabotage another candidate, Ron had to remove Padma from the competition, but I don't see any conversations between him and Padma post-secrets-challenge pre-abseil-challenge.

[ellemir]

You're right! Sorry it's late at night here, and I guess I'm more tired than I realised.
But how can I go to sleep while Dean is missing?

Just a thought: Could Antonin have thought Linus was behind the original breakin?
After all he knew about the instruction to steal. If so it might explain why he wasn't more than a little worried at the time. He would trust Linus to not take anything dangerous.
Because otherwise, having had one attempt on his office, I am surprised he wasn't using more active wards.
I remember Sinistra using one that turned eyebrows purple. And I think she said she hadn't liked Antonin and Razs more radical suggestions, so he clearly has some strong ideas.

[cheyinka]

I think he might have suspected Linus, yeah, not knowing that Linus had stolen part of Sinistra's sculpture as his challenge-mandated theft. And he'd assume that, firstly, Linus wouldn't take anything either dangerous or irreplaceable, and secondly, that the "return my books you BOOK THIEF" compulsion would work especially well on Linus.

[cheyinka]

Something that occurred to me: if Snape is out searching the castle as Milland, how vigilant will he be able to be about his polyjuice without looking like a drunk? :worried:

[ellemir]

Also, any major trouble will bring MLE down to Hogwarts.

[cheyinka]

That too - and since it's something stolen from Dolohov it's especially likely to be Barty. Ugh.

[ellemir]

Of course in a pinch, the real Milland could turn up dead. That would kill any suspicion and leave Snape free to move elsewhere. While most of the Order would draw the line at murder, I could see Snape doing so because he truly believes it the lesser of 2 evils, if he felt his continued freedom was essential to the fight against Voldie.

[ellemir]

And Antonin has asked Cedric to call Barty in. Well predicted!

[ellemir]

And the worst has happened.
I know Dean has been thoroughly unlikable, but I've been rereading the early years and he was scared and easily forced to conform but it was clear he had a good mind, and his true ideals seemed to gel with that of the Order. I can't help wondering what if?
Then again, he was too weak to stand by his principles, so he would have been a liability, but with true friends, who knows?

[cheyinka]

Yeah. He's a little like Percy in that one just wishes someone had shaken him by the shoulders until some sense settled in (I think I am mixing my metaphors), except he came from a genuinely awful starting point (unlike Percy who grew up with his family and was not treated as cattle).

That Hydra glimpsed him feeling disgust at Voldemort is all the sadder - if he'd lived he might have been recruitable :(

[cheyinka]

Oh no. "Thomas told me a few days ago that he'd been told to find someone in the school who was disloyal enough to send them to the camps. He refused to do the challenge, and hadn't told me of any further challenges."

So he really was plausibly recruitable - he'd had a "this is intolerable" moment.

But since he had refused to do the challenge, he would find an alternate one - especially an alternate one that seemed ludicrously difficult and all-too-likely to be deadly - very plausible. :(

I would say I hoped Padma and Seamus were expelled, or at least Padma, but I have to think that Voldemort would be pleased by her initiative. (And no doubt Lana will be too.)

[ellemir]

I doubt they will be expelled, but Antonin is going to make sure Padma at least sees exactly what they have wrought.

My slim hope is that it will be a wake up call for at least one of them. I think Padma is beyond hope, but Seamus, maybe not. He seems to believe the lies he has been told, but has some level of real feeling.
Before he got too close to Padma, he helped classmates in need even when he disagreed with them. I'm thinking the crucios in year 2 where he helped both Ron and someone else to get help.

[ladyrelaynie]

What I hope (don't ask me why) is that they don't decide to send Padma to the camps because of it. I know she doesn't really deserve the concern, but can't help but worry.

Also, I'm a bit worried about Hermione. She didn't answer Draco's question here, asked at 2:04 Pm UTC. She may not have answered him because she's trying not to encourage him, but surely she would at least say no, thank you?

Last time I can find that she posted was here, to Cedric at 10:44 Pm UTC.

What if Dean Thomas's death is a red herring, awful though it is, to keep us from worrying about Hermione?

Crap. Post, Hermione, post!

ETA: Phew. Guess I'm just a bit jumpy.

[ellemir]

And yes, Padma is beyond the pale.

It's all about her and her chances of making Head girl.

I wish she was real, so I could strangle her.

[ladyrelaynie]

I don't know, though. I don't think she intended him to die necessarily. Maybe it was similar to what Ron did to her?

ETA: Ugh, never mind, she and Seamus are both horrible.

"I can't help but feel bad." REALLY?!! Well isn't that sweet of you.

And how many times can you call someone an idiot when they've just died without sounding like a cold bitch? None? Okay then.

[ellemir]

My issue is that rather than being upset about Deans death, she is only concerned about the potential consequences for her.

She may not have meant for it to happen but she hasn't shown even one smidgen of remorse. In fact, she and Seamus are happy to lay ALL the blame on Dean. I think she may be a sociopath, she really lacks any sense that others matter, except in their relations to her.

ETA: I see we are now thinking the same way :)

[ladyrelaynie]

Oh no, I agree with you, after the conversation she and Seamus are having right now.

[cheyinka]

Seamus a little less than Padma - I get the impression that he's more shaken by it than she is. I mean, she's wishing she wasn't bothered by it and he's wishing that he and Dean could have been friends.

(Of course, he's also hoping she impresses Lana as a result, so - a smidgen less.)

[ellemir]

True.

I almost think Padma is saying she feels guilty more because she thinks she should feel guilty than because she actually has any true feelings. But that could be my prejudices showing.

[kiya]

I get the impression that Seamus deals a lot with stress by redirecting it elsewhere. ISTR he got very cold and angry after the dark rite where he had to kill his mother, and very 'yeah, she deserved it', and I was very "Oh, so cold, Seamus" and then he started melting down from the nightmares afters...

[gwendolyngrace]

I think that's a natural reaction to feeling loads of guilt over doing something horrible. And fwiw, I see Padma engaging in the same sort of behavior here. Not that Dean deserved it, or that she isn't being thoroughly self-centered here, but I think accusing her of being a sociopath is too much.

Think about how much people try to shift blame around over other types of accidents, or really any calamity that is not caused by an act of nature. The tendency to blame the victim is totally a part of human defense mechanism, whether or not it's a justified reaction.

[ellemir]

I don't know! I've been rereading the early days and Padma is so very self absorbed all the way through. Even Parvati's problems with poor marks etc are seen through a filter of how it affects Padma, with little sympathy even for her twin. The only times she seems to be supportive are when the consequences affect her and it is in her direct interest to calm things down.
She worries when Seamus is threatened but while she says the right thing, there is an underlying hint of I don't want to lose my confidante, not genuine concern for a friend.
She even makes light of Sanjis death, this is explained as her religious duty to celebrate his life and see his passing as a positive,rather than dwell on his death. She is probably just being a good Sikh girl but it sits uncomfortably with me.
The only truly good thing I've seen her do is support Seamus in his sexuality, but that could also be seen as being in her interest. He is her closest friend but their interactions are full of " you might be a halfblood but....you are loyal, you are right thinking etc". She sees even him through a very narrow view point.
And her near hero worship of Lana is disquieting as well.

Maybe I'm just biased from having real life interactions with someone who didn't care to hide such issues, but it is a conclusion that I have been gradually reaching over a very long time.

[ellemir]

Maybe I meant Pyschopath though on further consideration.

Andy mcNab, the former SAS member, has just released a book about being a "good"pyschopath which has got a lot of UK press. I can see those traits in both Padma and Lana.

Maybe in another environment, they would have been able to channel their actions more positively. Indeed their characters possibly believe they are doing so.

Thank you players, for once again, producing characters so realistic that we can look at them in detail and speculate as to their innermost thoughts and workings.

[alt_player]

Point of order: Padma is a Hindu, not a Sikh. Sikhs are a completely different religion (not a variant of Hinduism).

I'm finding the discussion of and demonizing of her character really interesting, by the way! She's not a psychopath, good or otherwise.

-Padma's Player

[ellemir]

Ok, interesting.

I assumed Sikh cause I seem to remember she talked about her older brother and his learning to tie a turban at about 12. While I had seen some other more commonly Hindu comments, that one stuck in my head last night when trying to decide which religion I thought she was.

[alt_player]

...Oops.

Early player error?

[ellemir]

Ok, although here in the UK I've known Sikh / Hindu families who've intermarried so it didn't read that strangely to me. Sikhism has some distant Hindu roots, and my previous boss was a devout Hindu woman who found nothing incompatible in her marriage to a Sikh.

[alt_player]

Right - and there are occasions when turbans are appropriate / part of traditional dress whether Sikh or Hindu... Plus it was (I think) largely early in the evolution of the character.

If you look at the body of her discussion of her family, though, she consistently talks about Hindu religious practices and the family's Kshatriyan heritage. So.

-Padma's player

[ellemir]

I guess in the UK the majority of the Sikh men I meet still place great importance on the wearing of the turban, which they always do and Sikh boys are expected to tie the full turban by reaching their teens. So the boys I taught at secondary school would be wearing the full turban. So to me a turban is essential to a Sikh, and worn at weddings and the like by a Hindu.
I understand that far less Sikh men wear turbans today in the US so it may be a distinction that is less obvious there.
Their right to do so is enshrined in many of our laws, such as an exemption from having to wear a motorcycle helmet. And the military have recently had to back down on a 20 year ban on such headwear.

[ellemir]

Of course, I live close to a Gurdwara, ( Sikh temple) so that may also influence my views :)

[agathi]

Even as horrible as Dean had become, I could never bring myself to completely dislike him. I am really saddened by his death.

Given the horror he started out with, I think most of his behavior was perfectly understandable. It would take a truly extraordinary person to be rescued from that and then stand up against the powers that pulled him out of it. (Fortunately such extraordinary people do exist, but its hard to hold it against someone for not being a hero.)

I'd like to think even us ordinary folks would have a line we wouldn't cross though, and sending someone else to the camps appeared to be Dean's.

(And don't think I didn't cry like a baby when that was revealed. Excellent work once again, players!)

[ellemir]

In year 2 he was a really good and true friend to Ginny. So I'm not surprised she was shaken.
I'm a little surprised none of the ISS have checked up on how she is coping.