another puzzle

[lapin-agile.livejournal.com]

Perhaps one of you pieced this together immediately. I haven't.

In the comments on alt_mcgonagall's 17 September Order Only post, Molly Weasley asks McGonagall if Lucius Malfoy asked to see "the book" during his visit to the castle. McGonagall responds: "As for the book - no, he did not. I believe we've duped him - at least this year."


Thoughts?




Aside: the question has been raised (on the previous thread) whether to start threads for each separate topic or whether this community risks developing too many simultaneous conversations. My vote is for making new posts for each separate topic (and for fresh rounds of speculation on old topics after they've lain dormant for a while). I find this helps me navigate the community if I want to find what someone said on a particular issue. For what it's worth (and in anticipation of the day when it becomes an issue for us), I also think it's helpful to keep threads from collapsing to outline by starting a new post to continue the ongoing conversation.

Comments

Re: But then Questions Arise...

[lapin-agile.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's impossible you'd have rather isolated wizarding families.

I think this is definitely canonical. And I think you are especially right about the isolation of under-elevens. Adults seem to connect through work and other social avenues (mostly left unspecified in canon), but folks seem to know other folks when we see them out shopping in Diagon Alley or Hogsmeade, for instance. And we know that Hogsmeade is the only wizarding-only community, but I don't think we have a reason to suppose that most families live in isolation. (I think Rowling just left some gaps in what she described. For instance, the first chapter of Book One has Uncle Vernon travelling past clusters of people in pointy hats and cloaks on what turns out to be the day after Harry survives Voldemort's attack on Godric's Hollow. This happens near his office "in town" [which could be anywhere in greater London but seems from the text to be right in Little Whinging] -- but maybe Surrey, like London, has an unusually high density of magical people. Anyway, the point is we don't get a lot of discussion from Rowling about the pattern of Wizarding settlement in the UK and the evidence we have is mixed.)

Ron's family may be a good test of your point. It seems that their place outside the "village" of Ottery St. Catchpole must be pretty remote, and Ron doesn't seem to know many other kids when he arrives at Hogwarts, yet the Weasleys are not alone when they reach the old boot that turns out to be the Portkey to the World Cup match -- the Diggories live close enough to join them for the journey. Still, it doesn't seem that Cedric grew up playing with the Weasley boys.

Just one of those things that canon leaves relatively open-ended.

Re: But then Questions Arise...

[jenett]

Yep.

The adults definitely do meet up - the stuff you cited, but also, they've just got obviously more options for transport (apparation, not just floo.)

But I seem to remember the thing with the portkey being "Oh, you know Cedric from school" not "Oh, hi, Cedric, you haven't droped in this vacation, done anything fun?" like you might if cross-connections between kids were common. (I mean, they obviously don't live *that* far away, if the port key location is in common, but it's equally clear they're not in and out of each other's homes regularly.)

It's also interesting - the Weasleys invite Harry and Hermione for vacations, but you don't really see that happening with anyone else, even in passing. Nor do you see them hosting social events, even very casual ones. (And if I'm right, the family 'clock' has settings for home and work and school and mortal danger and such - but not for "out with friends." (My copies are up in the top of my pantry shelves, and I'm in the midst of cleaning up after major cooking, so I am not going to go dig up now, but I think that's right.)

Which suggests that even the adults go out to 'neutral' ground rather than have each other over. (Wizarding pubs, etc.) A perfectly logical explanation would have to do with magical home protections: if you have a dinner party, you'd be allowing people to come inside those protections and potentially do not-great things, or manipulate future access. So even parents bringing their kids over to play would be a little tricky from that POV.

Y'know, put like this, it's a little odd the kids are as well socialised as they are: for dropping them all into a shared room living situation at the start of school, things go surprisingly smoothly. Maybe for wizarding kids, there's a special socialisation curriculum the year before they turn 11 or something. (Muggle-born kids wouldn't have that issue, since they'd presumably be used to being at school with others.)

Re: But then Questions Arise...

[lapin-agile.livejournal.com]

You have me thinking about this, and I think we have to be cautious in taking the Weasleys' experience as a model for all wizarding families -- for at least two reasons:

First, the Weasleys were and are part of the Order, so they have, perhaps, self-isolated from all but Order folks (and none of the rest of *them* have children. (Rather, the Longbottoms and Potters did, but the first are incapacitated and Neville's gran is not apparently against exposing Neville to any risks -- and the Potters are dead, but the Weasleys *do* include Harry in their circle as soon as he's allowed back into wizardom at age 11).

Second, Mr Weasley is pretty marginalised professionally and seems to be viewed by other adults either as a bit of a nutter, as a social embarrassment (downwardly mobile because of his big family and pitiful career trajectory), or as a blood traitor. So it's not much of a surprise to think that the children don't have play dates growing up because no one will let *their* kids play with those Weasleys.

We don't get a clear view of this because we see everything from Harry's point of view: in the early books he does not have a clear understanding of adult social codes; throughout, he sees the Weasleys through rose-coloured glasses (he loves this big family that embraces him); and as he gets old enough to see more clearly, the political situation gets dangerous and the Order circles the wagons so its no wonder that the Weasleys rarely socialize with other families in Harry's presence.

Last thought:
One example of a big social gathering that might stand as evidence in your discussion of the dangers of letting acquaintances through your wards is the Weasley wedding in Book 7. An extreme case, but a case in point for your argument.