Speculation: What's being guarded on the third floor?

[zorb]

Hello, fellow alt_fen! Since I don't appear to be alone here (yay!), I thought I'd kick off a discussion on the mystery just starting to unfold.

Now, of course, we all know what was canonically on the third floor, and what it was guarding. But how much of that still holds in this universe, with corporeal Voldemort and the Ministry essentially in control of Hogwarts?

From Harry and Draco's conversation, it still sounds like it's Fluffy - perhaps not named as such ;-) - guarding the trap door. And I can certainly imagine that Voldemort would still be on his quest for immortality. It doesn't seem like Hogwarts would be the wisest place to hide the Stone, though, with DEs all around and within it, and lacking the teachers' protections.

What do you think?

Comments

[eliah.livejournal.com]

Fluffy gets my vote as well. It seems like they're keeping a lot of canon stuff in, but making it fit the premise. Like Fang (http://community.livejournal.com/hpalternity/4465.html?thread=19825#t19825) :)

[zorb]

Yay, Fang! I think it's pretty clearly Fluffy, but I'm still wondering what he's guarding, and how.

[lapin-agile.livejournal.com]

I share your question about what has been stolen from Gringotts and what (presumably one and the same what) is on the third floor at Hogwarts.

I'm willing to believe that it is the stone, but...

:: did it not eventually emerge in canon (Book 7, perhaps) that the Book 1 robbery was not just anywhere in Gringotts but was a robbery of the LeStrange/Black family vault? (Which, if memory serves, tied Book 1 together with Book 7 where Harry, Hermione, and Ron break into the same vault to retrieve one of the Horcruxes.)

:: if all were the same, surely Bella would know it was from her vault that something has been taken -- and we have no sign of that.

:: if all were the same, surely Bella, Lucius, and the Lord Protector would know by now what's gone missing -- and, again, we have no sign of that.

:: there's no sign that Minerva has allies among the teachers (I wish there were more teachers being played as active characters), AND

:: there's no sign that Minerva has had on-going or recent contact with Dumbledore (I took her as being surprised and over-joyed to hear from Dumbledore when the journals began)

:: we'd have to accept a Philosopher's Stone robbery to be Minerva's initiative (and I'll need some convincing to believe that)

I'm eager to see more hints about the shape of this mystery. Who committed the robbery? What's missing? From which vault has it been taken?

I'm eager to see more evidence that Minerva has colleagues within Hogwarts whom she can trust (she seems very isolated so far).

I'm eager to hear about some of the Order members who have journals but haven't yet posted (Tonks, Moody, Snape) -- until we do hear we won't know that these ARE all Order members in this AU.

And I want to know more about those who don't have journals and whose whereabouts/circumstances are in doubt (Hagrid, who has almost been mentioned by Sirius; Shacklebolt; Alice and Frank Longbottom, who seem to be alive!; who am I forgetting?)

[alt-player.livejournal.com]

In Book 1, the stone is easily retrieved from vault 713 by Hagrid, at Dumbledore's request. The Lestrange Vault in Book 7 is protected by curses and a dragon, and is never called "713," so it's not the same vault (I think that's what you were wondering, anyway!) :)

[lapin-agile.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I was wondering that and didn't have the books handy. I assumed that these bits of canon were things that had been figured into your calculations for this re-imagining of canon events, so I'm pleased to have the holes in my memory plugged! (You folks may inspire me to re-read the books in the end, but I'm not ready to do that yet.) I'm spending all my available time enjoying your work.

[alt_moderator]

Thank you for pointing it out, though! As you might guess, this is a huge re-boot, and we've definitely already had to internally retcon things when we realized they wouldn't work the way we'd thought. (So far, nothing has slipped out, I think - but I'm sure it's just a matter of time). So it's really good that you would keep us accountable! :P

[lapin-agile.livejournal.com]

In my focus on whether the Philosopher's Stone had been stored in the Lestrange's vault before it was removed from Gringotts (my memory needed a vigorous jogging, because I do now remember that the vault Hagrid emptied had only the one, very small package in it when he and Harry arrived), I neglected to consider the broader significance of alt_player's reminder of two elements of the Book 1 story that I've not forgotten, but which we also haven't mentioned here yet

:: that Hagrid retrieved the package legally and without difficulty (There were, in fact, two separate events: Hagrid's removal of the secret package and an attempted robbery of what Harry concludes was the same vault on the same day); AND
:: that Hagrid was Dumbledore's agent in retrieving the package containing the stone.

Given the differences of political situation in the game, one possibility is that there has been only one event at Gringotts -- a successful robbery (rather than an authorized removal and a separate, unsuccessful attempted robbery), during which something was removed that we have inferred is now being hidden at Hogwarts on (or accessible from) the third floor where certain students and one Mudblood have encountered a great big, dangerous something.

The biggest difference is that in the game we seem to have a successful robbery of Gringotts -- and we know how difficult that should have been. (Though, honestly, I was more accepting of its impossibility until I read Book 7 in which three gifted but amateurish children circumvent the curses and dragons.) Or is it no more a robbery than in canon? Are the press reports and Malfoy's fussing about a robbery a matter of disinformation at some level?

[Moment of Wild Speculation: Is the truth that the Protectorate knows that someone accessed a vault they thought couldn't be opened because its owner is wanted and in hiding (Dumbledore's, for instance)? They might not know what had been removed, but would plausibly suspect it a sign that Dumbledore plans to mount some challenge to the Lord Protector's rule. Telling the press there's been a robbery would be a way of telegraphing to Dumbledore and his allies that their movements are being tracked; press reports about a Gringotts robbery would also give a pretext for ratcheting up the State's already draconian surveillance laws; all raids, arrests, and interrogations could be excused as efforts to track down the alleged criminal masterminds who pulled off a Gringotts heist. /unfoundedspeculation]

All this brings us back to Zorb's question about which canonical details hold in this AU. Hagrid's involvement? Dumbledore's? Or are others involved who were not part of the canonical event -- might there be a conspiracy involving the goblins? (If there really HAS been a robbery at Gringotts, how was it managed?)

[zorb]

I like your wild speculation. It's possible that the robbery and what's hidden (presumably the Stone?) are unrelated, too, or that the reported robbery was a front for some other action.

Goblin involvement would be an interesting shift, and it might get us an introduction to Bill Weasley in this world. In general, I like the way characters are gradually joining us; it gives us time to catch up with where they stand.

[brimtoast.livejournal.com]

I am pretty sure it's Fluffy. There's a reference to the multiple heads (http://alt-neville.livejournal.com/2283.html?thread=19691#t19691), and the implication that it is guarding a trapdoor (http://alt-harry.livejournal.com/1995.html?thread=28363#t28363).

Also, I think they found Fluffy the same way as in the book. A Gryffindor and a Slytherin sneak out for a wizard's duel. But instead of Draco vs. Harry, it's Draco (with Harry as his second) vs. Ron (with Neville as his second (http://alt-neville.livejournal.com/2283.html)). And Hermione happened to be there too (http://community.livejournal.com/hpalternity/4119.html). Which gives me a feeling that this game is going to incorporate a lot of book canon (though twisted around, of course) instead of veering in a totally new direction.

I have another mystery I'd like to hear speculation about: What is the letter from October 28 1981 (http://alt-lupin.livejournal.com/1122.html) that Lupin was sent but never received until now? Smells of sandalwood and currant, cheerful tone, green ink... Do any of those clues connect to anyone we know of?

[zorb]

Yes, Fluffy seems a certainty, as well as the trapdoor.

I'm not sure that Lupin's letter has an equivalent in canon, but I'd guess it was from the Potters. Either that or Sirius.

[lapin-agile.livejournal.com]

My guess is on the Potters as well -- or Lily alone?

My father sent along a box of my mother's things, and in it I found something quite... unnerving. Touching. Devastating. A letter I never knew I'd received, dated 28 October 1981. The postmark is still legible. The ink still green. The contents... deceptively cheerful and completely devastating.

In addition to wondering what the green ink signifies (I'd have taken it as a Slytherin colour choice ... but who?... surely Snape was never so juvenile as to write in green ink?), my attention is drawn by two things: that he calls the text "deceptively cheerful" and that the letter has a postmark. As far as we know, owl mail doesn't get postmarked.

So.

Somebody help me think further on this one?

[brimtoast.livejournal.com]

Looks like it was from Lily (http://alt-mcgonagall.livejournal.com/1782.html?thread=8182#t8182). And his mom never delivered it... why? Because Lily was already dead by then, and she wanted to spare him? Because his mother was on Voldemort's side and was against Lily for being Muggleborn? Maybe his mother just forgot, and there's nothing else to it.

alt_lucius on Gringotts incident...

[lapin-agile.livejournal.com]

I'm going to post these links so I can close a bunch of tabs!

1. Sept. 2: () Lucius first mentions that MLE (Magical Law Enforcement?) is investigating something that's happened at Gringotts -- and that a Prophet article will be necessary. (Acknowledges that there is direct censorship and direction of what makes the paper.
2. Sept. 5: (http://alt-lucius.livejournal.com/1202.html) Lucius quotes the Prophet article and then bemoans its lack of reference to the reward that's been offered for information. (So Ministry control of the Prophet is not perfect!) He also notes that he'd like to replace Dawlish with Bellatrix at the top of the investigation.
3. Sept. 15: (http://alt-lucius.livejournal.com/2375.html) Lucius reports that he has, indeed, had Dawlish replaced by Bellatrix to head up the investigation. AND (In Comments Thread): (http://alt-lucius.livejournal.com/2375.html?thread=5959#t5959) Lucius & Bella discuss her motives and methods.