Some Posts Are Fractal, or, It's Foreshadowing And Characterisation All the Way Down

[elisem]

So I just clicked over to Jeremy's goofing up the private message on an Order Only post, and reading through it reminded me how very many things get done at once in a lot of Alternity posts. (I know I'm talking about my own character, but it happens in every character's timeline.) In this one post, early in Jeremy's played time, there's:

* foreshadowing for the working relationship Bill and Jeremy have (which will eventually lead to Jeremy asking Bill to be best man when Jeremy and Maureen finally wed)
* an example of how the ISS group pools info to figure out what the grownups are not telling them
* Kingsley's guidance, and why he is so very much missed
* Sally-Anne, Pansy and Ron talking over interpersonal dynamics with an eye to future trouble and calculating the risk thereof
* Jeremy demonstrating his unexamined cluelessness about emotional impact by using the word squib as a self-putdown -- in front of Alice, while everyone is waiting to see if Frank has lost his magic for good. (This cluelessness about emotional impact will flower when he offers Hermione Teddy Nott's wand as a trophy and working tool.)
* showing how Remus/Sirius/Alice/Molly look after one another in times of stress and worry
* good early example of how Sally-Anne and Jeremy chat and banter (Sally-Anne telling him " I just lack the commitment to science and data-gathering that some Ravenclaws have, which is probably why the Hat put me in Slytherin.")

... and probably more. One of the things I love about Alternity is how interwoven all the pieces wound up being, and how not only the playing advanced the narrative, but how many directions it so often advanced the narrative at once.

Got any examples of fractal posts that you liked a lot? Pivotal ones? Or just things where the interplay and worldbuilding delighted you?

Comments

[jenett]

I'm trying to think of optimal examples, but while I'm thinking, I'll add that if anyone goes "Does anyone remember that thread?" and can't find it, tell me what you remember and I will rummage in the wiki for it.

[gwendolyngrace]

I think what you're describing is a process that is bound to happen with any set of characters where not all the variables are known at the first instance.

Naomi and I did not plan for Seamus and Padma to be besties, but it happened and it worked and we kept building on the groundwork that had been established to deepen and strengthen their relationship.

Deb mentioned that beautiful night when she and I stayed up til 3 (well, it was 3 for me; it was 1 for her) allowing Regulus and Sirius to finally talk to one another and hear each other, possibly for the first time in their lives. (At the time it was the latest night I had had playing Alternity. I look at this last weekend and think, "oh, how little you knew from late nights....")

But as I said, that conversation was a touchstone I used over and over in my understanding of Sirius's psychology, and Deb, in her play of Barty, particularly, used her understanding of Regulus to shade and inform what additional ammunition Barty could fire at Sirius. Because the same post featured a Reg-Pansy conversation, it also allowed me and Linny later to circle back to Pansy's relationships with both of them - Sirius's jealousy (and yes, he was!) that she started getting her advice from Reg instead of him, their bonding over how awful Walburga was and what it was like for her to be in Grimmauld Place, her love of music and how she used it to inform and broaden her horizons, etc.

Granted, I think the phenomenon you're discussing is much more obvious and varied when it's an open post like you're using to illustrate, and we had fewer and fewer of those as the plot and the necessities of character-cliques dictated smaller and smaller circles of trusted confidantes, but yeah, you're totally right.

It shows that we were careful and conscientious authors, yes, but also readers of each other's work, picking up cues that we left without even necessarily knowing we were laying the pipe.

[elisem]

That's the thing, yes! Readers, and picking up cues. And then playing catch with them, rather than bludgering each other.

[elisem]

I was looking at this post a while back, as an example of talking about how the wards affect trade (commerce is one of my Things), and it's got a fair amount of connection and foreshadowy goodness in it as well.

(And oh, the characters were all so much younger then....)

[jenett]

One of my favourite random worldbuilding bits was Siz asking Poppy about contraceptive advice for her sister.

(I um, do have the text of several of the Repopulation Office pamphlets saved: I will add that to the list of things to wiki. They are dreadfully horrible.)

But I love that for both some character stuff (Siz's large family was mentioned before I took her over, and figuring out how to make it clear they were there and she loved them was a constant complication) and also the relationship with Poppy, where they're just cheerfully chatting away.

And then for the worldbuilding, because of course if you have magic for this kind of thing, there's a few dozen different options, and people have really strong opinion about which you use, and which you don't. And the implications in there that the Ministry is quietly encouraging the ones that are more likely to fail (often because you need to remember to stop and do something when you're in the middle.)

The Adsimilis Silphion mentioned there is a charm that mimics the effect of the Silphium plant that was widely used as a contraceptive in the ancient world (so widely it went extinct, because it also had a very narrow growing range.) The plant was a thing you took monthly, and apparently had fairly few side effects, and of *course* someone would make a charm when you couldn't get it. Dropping those kinds of things into game always delighted me. (See also Argleton, which was Deb's doing.)

[cheyinka]

"Fellow witches, the future of the Protectorate lies between our hipbones." ahahaha I had forgotten that. That's fantastic.

[jenett]

The one about 'you're engaged, here's how to get to know your in-laws' got referenced, too, when Siz commented to Tosha that she could not imagine anything less likely to happen with Bella. The relevant paragraphs, for amusement:

If your fiance has grown brothers or sisters, their approval can go a long way in making you truly a part of the family. Encourage him to spend time with his brother, and all the genial friendly teasing of that kind. Ask his sister to tell you the things he will not admit himself: the little childhood foibles and stories that knit the family together. Do not put yourself or your preferences forward, but stick to friendly, easy, communal topics.

But in particular, reach out to his brother’s wife, if there is such a person. She, of all people, can tell you the secrets of marrying in. Invite her out to do something frivolous and coax all the best stories of the family out of her, the things she wishes someone had told her. Get her to look on you as a younger sister, in need of guidance and gentle assistance. If she has children, offer to be of help to them, even at cost to your own family. Gentle, friendly outings - a tea shop, to try on clothes, a walk through one of New London’s parks - may be best, but daring younger women might choose to shop for honeymoon attire or other such amusements together.

[elisem]

... but daring younger women might choose to shop for honeymoon attire or other such amusements together.

Siz and Bella...

OK. BRAIN GO SPLUNGE NOW.

[naomikritzer]

OMG. ::rofl::

[synecdochic]

I mentioned it in another post, but I loved Siz and Tosha's conversations about ethics and forces of history so much. They reinforced so many thematic bits, and if you look at them in retrospect (I did the other night when I was looking for something) you can see that Tosha is absolutely correct when he says to Siz (after his return from the dead) that he warned her exactly what would happen, and sure enough it's all there. You just have to connect the dots.

(On a similar note: all the conversations Tosha and Lucius had about the problems of building a society rather than overthrowing a country. Because it's all stuff the Order will have to deal with as they do the same thing -- we saw a lot of it playing out, this summer -- and although it will work for the Order because they have entirely different and much better motives, and a leader who is not Sociopathic Evil, getting those questions onto the table up front was really a nice contrast, I think.)

I also agree that Reg and Sirius's last conversation was so very much an example of this. It didn't pay off until the end, but once it did, it really paid off.

[jenett]

There's a backchannel conversation between Siz and Tosha, where she basically calls him on "Okay, you have a country, but running it is clearly different than winning it" that then came out in all sorts of neat ways. (Him and Lucius was, I think, after that, mostly, and her to Alice in a couple of places, and I think her to Snape at one point.)

Also, you do the *best* 'make up random relevant literary example on the fly from wizarding literature' I've ever seen. Just saying.

[synecdochic]

I had SO MUCH FUN with the 'random example from wizarding literature'. Because Tosha is so widely read that there's always an example somewhere! (I also loved that he was a snob about theatre and opera. The exchanges where he and Narcissa were catty about various things never failed to amuse me.)

You, meanwhile, are AMAZING at coming up with wizarding nonfiction.

[jenett]

I really love the payoff for a bit of Siz's background, where she goes "Wait, my own master, when I apprenticed, taught me a whole bunch of obscure wizarding culture so I could... translate her personal notes properly? Okay, then."

Alde was a serious Slyth grand dame who was about 120 at that point, who really didn't want to take Siz on, but did it because she'd owed a favour for about a century to Siz's predecessor. (I have backstory fic, I love Alde.)

But Siz was, at that point, an even more awkward young adult than she was later, very 'paint by numbers' with social skills (here are acceptable topics to ask about, here are the ones people don't like talking about), and really not good with the kind of manners/culture/etc. that would let her move comfortably in complex academic circles in a field where a lot of people who do it don't need to work for a living (or at least can work weird hours.) And even without her own awkwardness, she was a nice kid from a yeoman Huff family a generation or two away from being farmers.

And so Alde sort of shrugged when Alcor said "This is the payback I want", and said "Ok. I'll teach her All The Things" (making her earn it every step of the way) and then did. (They eventually became very close, but the first year or two were really rough.) And thus able to have those conversations.

And it's that stuff that let her manage Raz's social circles as well as she did, I think.

[jenett]

And on the non-fiction: for a couple of years, I was doing lists of books, riffing off current popular books. (This was a lot easier when I had the job where I was reading Booklist, one of the publications librarians use for book selection, every month)

So there's a bunch of books in the wiki where I looked at 'this is popular', riffed on it for Alternity, and threw it in a list, so that when we needed a book to mention, we had something handy and didn't have to think it up on the spot.

The Pure Hunger series started as one of those. I'm also rather fond of the "Dorothy L. Sayers was a Muggle, but her books are good, and this series isn't quite as good, but hits enough of the same tropes you might still inhale it"Carrillon Forrest series.

Elise helped with a lot of it, even before she started playing: I have several happy memories of sitting in her livng room while still living in Minneapolis and saying "Book that does X" and her coming up with awesome titles or details
Oh! I should mention the name for the original database that had 'random stuff in it' when we were still on Yahoo!, which I think was Gwen's or Flourish's naming? It was called the Room of Requirement. Like you would.

[elisem]

"Annoying book about etiquette!"
"Pop-culture trendy book about time management and mindfulness!!"
"Bad erotica for wanna-be Death Eaters!"

OK, we didn't do that last one. At least not as far as I can recall.

[cheyinka]

"Fifty Shades of Octarine"? Wait, wrong series...

[naomikritzer]

You mean "Intra Profundis"?

[elisem]

Point! For some reason, that one had been temporarily scrubbed from slipped my mind just then.

[pegkerr]

This is one of my favorite examples: It's the conversation that Snape and Alice have right before the May 16 battle, and they touch upon Neville and his choice in December. Snape's tribute to Neville just moved me so deeply (brilliant writing, Denise):

I do not think Neville would begrudge me telling you this: he loves you immensely, but he believes in what we are doing more. His greatest joy was the day you told him what you were doing, and why you were doing it; his greatest pride was the day he was brought into the Order and could see for himself the cause for which you were fighting.

I have never known anyone so thoroughly possessed of the virtues of the Gryffindor, with so few of the vices. I spent years visiting his thoughts regularly, and I can tell you this, with no fear whatsoever that I am making up pretty lies to comfort you: he would not — will not — hold you to blame for what has happened. Not in the least. He would have sacrificed himself a hundred times over to preserve what we are doing, and counted the price a worthwhile one each time.

You have not forgot him. You will not forget him. You will find him, and we will rescue him when it is possible to do so, and we will take care of him for as long as is necessary, and the entire time you must — must — remember this: he loved you enough to give up his self to buy our safety, all of us, and I know him well enough to say that there is no part of him that did not pay the price willingly.

Do not take that choice away from him and count it a sin against your own reckoning. It was his choice, and you must honour it. I say this with the greatest of confidence: to him, not having done so would have been far worse.

You raised a son who was capable of making that hard choice — the right choice — at precisely the right time. Not many would have been able to.

Now consider:

*What a classic example of Alternity inverting canon. In canon, Snape reasoned that if Voldemort had picked Neville instead of Harry, Lily needn't have died. And so Snape hated Neville. And yet in Alternity, Neville is someone he genuinely admires.
*In the same way of canon inversion, instead of a hateful, wounding Snape we get a nurturing, consoling Snape.
*Snape is about to die. He's talking about Neville, but these words can also be considered counsel to Alice about how to think about HIS death.
*Neville is about to sacrifice himself AGAIN. And in this case, he won't even have the mind to make it his own choice--but it is POSSIBLE, he is in the right position, because of the choice he made in December.
*Alice is a leader who is about to lose a LOT of people she cares about. Snape is teaching her how to think about it so that she can do that and still hold onto her sanity.

[synecdochic]

I had so much fun writing that. I don't remember if I knew at that point that Snape would be dying in the Battle of Hogwarts -- I think I might have, but even if I hadn't, I knew it would be coming soon. (The "I confess I am looking forward to seeing those things built" was soooo painful.)

(I also love "And I suppose I love you too, you meddlesome beast", from that same thread, because that's Snape for "you are one of my dearest friends and I love you fiercely", and by that point Alice knows enough about him to know that.)

But yes! Snape cared deeply about Nev. In canon, I think it wasn't just that he saw Neville as someone who should have been the Boy-Who-Lived so Lily didn't have to die; part of it was that he only interacted with Neville in Potions class, and I talked elsewhere about how much Snape hated teaching beginners and people who couldn't keep up with him, and he saw Neville as not caring/not making the effort, which infuriated him. (Also, it didn't help that he had to be on edge all the time watching Neville's every move to prevent an incredibly dangerous explosion!)

In Alternity, Snape was still Neville's teacher, but at a subject (Occlumency) that Neville was a) highly, highly motivated to learn and b) fairly decent at. Seeing Neville working so hard at it short-circuited a lot of that frustration.

[lucky_guess]

...I've read that quote twice in the last two days (once on the full thread, once just now), and both times, it's made me cry. FYI. (Cried buckets and buckets the first time it was being written, too!)

[jenett]

So, I have another fractal (and I'm sorry for the fact it's Madam Pinkness, but she makes a good example here.)

Her post right after spring hols Y5, about new restrictions coming back to school

So, the first thing I should say was that figuring out how she was going to escalate when was really complicated: a lot of the plot about her blackmailing Raz was because we hit the question of "You have at least two highly competent people in the building who have no compunctions about killing other people, why do they not stop her?" and then we had to figure out what would stop them (a combo of a threat to Raz and then V's backing to let it play out, to make Harry do something being the solution we landed on, because we also realised we had to get Harry being more actively rebellious in some form sometime that year.)

But it also mattered to me that we had a reasonable progression from her end, that she got worse and worse, but in a way that made internal sense to her, and that built.

1) Kicking her demands for knowledge about private details up into higher and higher gear, and bringing out the theme of lack of privacy in a totalitarian regime.

2) Getting another mention in there of the role of the number 8 in the Protectorate (we went back and forth for a while on the total number of horcruxes, and decided on eight, and then had to seed 'eight is important, watch for that number' in there for a bit.)

3) The addition of further awful requirements (we never really picked this one up, I think because it's a kind of thing that's very tiring, but they were meant to be encounter-group style sessions, where one person sits in the middle and everyone else tells them what faults they need to correct. If I remember right, I'd had the idea for this earlier, and we didn't spring it until late in Umbridge's arc because we wanted to hint at it being horrible but not actually have to do much with it.)

4) Bringing out some more of the class dynamics, something Umbridge was pretty sensitive too, but that often were less commented on among the students for stretches of time.

5) Pushing the pureblood/halfblood separation much more clearly, so that Harry would be able to take a much more definitive stand.

6) Up the risks for the ISS kids, because they'd all spent their hols being tutored by traitors to the Protectorate.

And then there were some great comments (I adore Sally-Anne's "Dear Sirius Black, please do not give her additional ideas.")

[elisem]

She had the tiara by then, and it was ramping her up even further, right?

Umbridge + Horcrux = oh, dear.